The Bible does not state that they were eternally destroyed due to being unrepentent sinners. The organization, to my knowledge has never said that "without a doubt" Adam and Eve were eternally destroyed. No, they have simply stated that Adam and Eve were "evidently," "doubtlessly," incontestably," incontrovertibly," "indisputably," "it would seem," and "obviously," "eternally destroyed as unrepentent sinners!"
Separation of Powers
JoinedPosts by Separation of Powers
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Is this another scare tactic for the weak-minded Jehovah's Witness recruits and experienced members?
by I_love_Jeff inwhere in the bible does it state that adam and eve are unrepentant sinners and therefore deemed forever in the grave with no chance of resurrection, of course?
is this another scare tactic for the weak-minded recruits?
i believe their theory is based on mere speculation and simply used to convince the new recruits as well as the experienced members to refrain from questioning/going against their superiors otherwise jehovah will deem you an unrepentant sinner.
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Tech49 on HOURS, TIME, and REPORTS
by Tech49 ini thought i would share some of my observations on counting field service time, reports, etc.
and how those reports are viewed, to those that are still so fixated on numbers.. i served as secretary on the service committee for many years, and have seen it all!.
i was really disheartened when wt changed the requirement for aux pioneering to allow for 30 hrs, instead of the 50 it has been for so long.
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Separation of Powers
Tech49,
I agree wholeheartedly. The interchange with the CO sounds quite familiar. I have had several.
One must realize that the CO's are also judged by the higher-ups with regard to the activity of the circuit. When an active (statistics) circuit begins to falter, it must be because the CO just isn't encouraging enough. And when the activity (statistics) go up, well, it looks like the CO is doing his job. The act of reporting, since its inception, has always been about control. I have always recognized this, but it became blatantly apparent at the district convention when the "first century" christian was expressing how happy he was by the activity of the congregation while looking at a scroll, apparently depicting that he was getting their time. Interesting scenario, particularly because the majority of the first century church was illiterate and could not write and the use of papyrus (the scroll) had been effectively replaced by parchment...oh so many errors!
At least they don't have the old chalkboard at the front of the hall so that the Congregation Servant can praise the high hour publishers and then disparage the dregs.
Perception is more important than substance.
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Can you help me encourage Reopened mind.
by TotallyADD inas most of you know we got a very angry letter from our oldest son.
it hurt her very much.
i feel so bad for her because he attacked her for what i feel was very unfair.
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Separation of Powers
Regardless of whether we were raised in the org or not, being part of a family is a dynamic replete with problems, some real, some perceived. I concur with Blondie in that we can only be the best that "we" can be. Where we have made changes and come to the realization that we were not the best parent, son or daughter, husband or wife, or even friend that we could have been, we need to own up to that and make the committment to strive to be better. That, unfortunately, is all you can do. Water under the bridge has either evaporated or is dammed up somewhere, either way, it has been moved along by time. Some of us can put aside the wrongs, others bathe themselves in them. Some find their present course toxic and make changes, others seem to only function in that caustic environment.
Be the best you that you can be. When we take ownership of the mistakes that we have made as parents, sons or daughters, husbands or wives, or even friends, we can move on and attempt to make things better. We cannot, however, control the reactions of those against whom the mistakes were made. We leave that ball in their court, but in doing so, they know that we are ready to lovingly volley in the future.
Kind regards,
SOP
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OKAY... July 2013 Witchtower. The end ain't coming fo at least 30 years...
by hamsterbait inthe noolite in the july study rag, is that all the annointed will be in heaven when armageddy starts.. they already proved from the scriptures that there is not going to be a rapture of annointed.
(as a study pointed out they would "never" go back to a teaching they had disproved with the babble).
since mark sanderson is about 48, is in beth hell and receives the very best of health care, we can count on him living until at least 70 - 80. unless he dies of cancer or obesity or an accident.
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Separation of Powers
Interesting supposition Hamsterbait. I would like your opinion of the following:
One of the principal elements of the July 2013 Watchtower that few have mentioned is the timeline illustration of "The Wheat and The Weeds"
In that illustration, there is a portion titled "Shining Brightly." Notice what the caption states, "Shortly before Armageddon, the remaining faithful annointed are gathered to the heavens." (italics mine)
Now, I don't know about you, but that sounds strikingly similar to the expression found in 1 Thessalonias 4:17; "Afterward, we the living who are surviving together with them, be caught away in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and thus we shall always be with [the] Lord." (NWT)
Most versions are translated the same except for the Douay-Rheims Bible which says, "Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds..."
Looks like the door has been opened for the rapture to begin someday soon!
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With the July 15 WT approaching, would this be the ideal opportunity to start an ACTIVELY VOCAL fade?
by Captain Blithering inby 'actively vocal', i do not mean openly criticising the articles and pointing out the inconsistencies or flipflops (not footwear, reversals).
i do mean letting people know that you're finding it hard to understand the new truth, and the fact that there is therefore old truth, or falsities, (is that a word?
it is now), therefore if there are falsehoods (that's the word, of course), then that puts into doubt the extent of jah's involvement in the preparation/dissemination of it all... (and making it clear you're not saying they aren't gods prophets on earth, just that you're not sure, don't know).. the reason i ask is cos i'm finding it hard to completely fade without an external reason.
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Separation of Powers
Possible reply,
"For me, it's not a matter of faith. I have faith. Faith in Jehovah. Faith in his Word. You know, faith. Right now, though, I am having a crisis of confidence. I am trying to put these new ideas into perspective. It is difficult to be told all your life, and believe, that Jehovah has done nothing without his representative organization of earth. But now, I am trying to understand how for almost 2000 years there was no organization that represented his interests. I mean, if that is the case, then how did we get the Bible. I mean, the Bible canon wasn't defined until almost 200 years after the death of the last apostle. Who was responsible for that if the weeds had overgrown the wheat....I have tried to get my head around this....I have been praying and know that I need to wait on Jehovah....Thank you for coming by."
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WT August 15, 2013 QFR - Sitting next to a disfellowshipped child at meetings
by Designer Stubble inpage 8 of the latest wt (insider version) has a whole page dedicated to the question whether it is appropriate to sit next to a disfellowshipped child at meetings.. not sure how to paste this in, but check jw.org.
perhaps someone can do this for me.. horrible, no words really on how pharisee like their cult grip and control has become!.
first of all, without any shame they are talking about disfellowshipped minors.
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Separation of Powers
OVERZEALOUS=OVERBLOWN
I believe this to be an actual QFR as this is becoming a widespread situation. There are always the hardcore that sit at the hall and "police" the congregation. It doesn't have to be some old bro or sis, typically it is the up-and-comer that wants to make a name for himself. After all, if you are a 30 something and show yourself to be more "company oriented," you can really move up quickly. Where once "holier-than-thou" was considered unbalanced and immature, now it is desired.
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The only thing a JW needs to know to be set free from their religion
by yadda yadda 2 inbillions of human beings right now are muslims, hindus, buddhists, etc, etc.
they do not know a jot about 'jehovah' or the 'watchtower bible & tract society of new york" etc etc.
what is going to happen to these billions of persons at armageddon?.
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Separation of Powers
In my opinion, the new light regarding the FDS addresses this question, if there was no FDS from the 3rd century on until 1918, and yet the article states that there were anointed followers here and there during that almost 2000 years of no FDS, then what organization did they follow? There was no organization, yet they were anointed per the article. It appears that they must have simply been judged worthy without any affiliation to any standing organization. That point, my friends, will be the most difficult aspect of the new light to try to make sense of. Over the course of the modern day organization, it has been driven home that God does not work without an organization to represent his interests. Well, that is apparently no longer the case.
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What Would JWs Do if all the GB died at once?
by bafh inin another thread on the board, someone talked about their friend being a sniper in the marines and being very angry at the gb with thoughts of revenge.
it made me wonder - what would happen to the jws if in some strange turn of events, all the gb died at the same time?
how would they carry on if their leadership was snuffed out?
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Separation of Powers
There are always enough people waiting in the wings to step in, in the event something as outrageous as what was mentioned occured. The recent appointment of Sanderson(?) is proof of that. Where did he come from? Why select him? Well, I believe his introduction, found also in the July 15 2013 study edition I might add, stated that he assisted in the Service Desk. Most of the new group progressed through the Service Desk or assistants to the Writing Committee, and some were simply underlings of the Branch Committees. You just need to profess to be of the anointed for long enough that any scandal caused by your partaking has subsided and people simply accept the notion that you are by your continued loyalty to the process.
As for the Nethenim, that was an experiment gone awry. Now with the expectation that the earthly anointed will be "gathered up" (a la rapture), there is no need for a Nethenim because the supply of the professed may well be inexhaustible.
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We just love this new idea
by Separation of Powers init is probable that if the domestics include the great crowd (other sheep) and the belief is that no fds can be proven to have existed from the death of the last apostle until the reestablished fds in 1918, that most believers from the death of the last apostle or the "dawn" of the 2nd century as the article puts it, will soon be considered other sheep.
the wheat and the weeds articles makes it a point to use a particular expression.
it uses "overgrown" where the parable uses oversown.
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Separation of Powers
@frankiespeakin- I agree, I have always wondered why it is ok to question standing doctrine when one rises to the upper echelon of the hieracrchy but it is considered an offense for anyone else. I guess it depends more on your proven loyalty based on your current position.
@problemaddict- I appreciate your response. The belief that there are more anointed than those who comprise the FDS is understood. If, however, there is "no line of truth" as noted in your comment, or no actual succession of FDS representation, that would imply that there was no collective group of Christians. This could easily be argued based on the premise that if there was no FDS than there were no domestics to feed. Otherwise, how to you justify that there was indeed a group of Christians, if there was no one to feed them. The reasoning is circular, that is realized, but it is not difficult to see how readily the idea of no annointed after the death of the last apostle and only anointed after the foundation of the modern day FDS. This is not much different than Mormon theology, i.e. all real biblical interpretation depends on the modern mormon movement from Joseph Smith to present.
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We just love this new idea
by Separation of Powers init is probable that if the domestics include the great crowd (other sheep) and the belief is that no fds can be proven to have existed from the death of the last apostle until the reestablished fds in 1918, that most believers from the death of the last apostle or the "dawn" of the 2nd century as the article puts it, will soon be considered other sheep.
the wheat and the weeds articles makes it a point to use a particular expression.
it uses "overgrown" where the parable uses oversown.
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Separation of Powers
It is probable that if the domestics include the great crowd (other sheep) and the belief is that no FDS can be proven to have existed from the death of the last apostle until the reestablished FDS in 1918, that most believers from the death of the last apostle or the "dawn" of the 2nd century as the article puts it, will soon be considered other sheep. The Wheat and the Weeds articles makes it a point to use a particular expression. It uses "overgrown" where the parable uses oversown. It may well have been a purposeful slip. To imply that no collective organization of believers, "anointed", existed for over 2000 years until the establishment of the modern day organization may well be the means by which the number of modern anointed can be justified, afterall, all those believers were still believers, just not heaven bound believers.